I’ve been bouncing around a lot of ideas lately in regards to 4HB.
One that keeps circling around my head is the differences between 4HB/Slow Card and Paleo eating. Apparently I’m not the only one thinking like this, as Carsten wrote a post about this earlier this week. While he didn’t specifically outline the differences he did point out why our ancestors probably would not have had the luxury of eating Slow Carb style (the whole processing of beans issue).
Well, I felt it would be helpful to actually point out the differences (only a few) that I see between the two diets.
|
4HB/Slow Carb |
Paleo/Primal |
Comments |
| No “White” Carbs – refined or unrefined | No starches or cereals – refined or unrefined | Basically the two diets are in agreement here. |
| No Fruit | Fruit acceptable – in moderation | 4HB doesn’t allow fruit due to it’s simple sugar load and effect on insulin, whereas Paleo allows them in moderation because they would have been accessible to primitive man depending on the season. |
| Unlimited Vegetables | Unlimited Vegetables | Complete agreement |
| Meats – preferably lean, as much as you like | Lean Meats – as much as you like | For the most part in agreement – but Paleo stresses only lean meats for your protein source. 4HB recommends but doesn’t necessarily require the leanest cuts. |
| Cheat Day | No set Cheat Day | 4HB Cheating is for psychological benefits and resetting certain hormones. Paleo doesn’t specifically allow cheating but does recognize modern life and allows a set of “free” meals per week. Essentially allowing but not condoning cheats. |
| Lots of Beans/Legumes | No Beans/Legumes | BIG DIFFERENCE HERE. Beans/Legumes would have been utterly worthless to primitive man. The preparation methods alone make them not valuable to easy digestion and energy production. Used as fiber and extra protein in 4HB, but totally not allowed on Paleo. |
The more I’ve read the more I feel that the natural progression from 4HB/Slow Carb is to a more Paleo-style diet. What has been happening lately, is making me feel that I need to change over sooner rather than later.
My original plan was to make the switch once I got to my goal weight of 175 lbs – but the last few weeks I’ve stagnated right around 179 – 180. This has not been discouraging to me though, but I do think I have some ideas as to why I’ve had this plateau – I’ve been eating/snacking on peanuts a lot more than originally. In the book TF even describes how snacking on nuts and peanuts stopped progression 3 times.
But the bigger issue is the gas…yes, the gas. I notice lately that everytime I eat beans, my stomach becomes upset. I am a person who has eaten beans my entire life – just not anywhere near to the extent these past two months. I’m starting to see the need to cut this item out of my diet. Not completely, but pretty extensively.
Here’s my thing – I see 4HB/Slow Carb and Paleo as basically fraternal twins. Very closely related, born of the same ideas – but with slight differences that make them obviously different. My plan is to make a hybrid 4HB/Paleo diet.
How will I do that? 1) I will add in fruit but no more than once a day (and most days, will still look 4HB in that regards). 2) beans will be reduced, not sure by how much, but they will be reduced. 3) Cheat meals, no more than 3/week, instead of one big cheat day. 4) Intermittent fasting – no more than 24 hours and more likely only about 18 hours – I’ve been doing this already and while I haven’t noticed weight loss, I’ve felt good doing this, especially after a cheat meal/day. 5) Experimenting with different meats and recipes.
This last one will hopefully benefit you as much as it benefits me – as I will track my “experiments” in eating new things and share them with you.
If you’re interested in learning more about the Paleo lifestyle/dieting I would recommend the following sources:
The Paleo Diet by Loren Cordain, Ph.D.
The Primal Blueprint and the “companion” website Mark’s Daily Apple by Mark Sisson.
What do you think – are you planning on sticking with 4HB/Slow Carb for a long time or switching to something else? If you are switching – what will you be switching to? Please share with us in the comments!
I’ve heard that the more you eat beans, the less gas you’ll start noticing. There’s an initial hump to get over. Just think – before you were eating all those beans, you probably had less gas because you were so plugged up. Beans aid digestion, so it makes sense they would cause gas, but it should decrease over time. In some sense, gas is normal.
I like the comparison with the paleo diet…. interesting how there isn’t a single diet in the world that disagrees about vegetables, I think… might be a clue in there.
Thanks for the comment – as for the initial hump with the beans…unfortunately in that regards I’ve been on 4HB since 12/19 – and I’ve been a bean eater my whole life (I used to eat beans at least once a week growing). Yes, gas is normal – but the “smelly” kind isn’t and the stomach bloating and discomfort sure isn’t!
Brian
Are you absolutely sure it is the beans? I found that ‘something’ was causing the same problem, but not consistently. I narrowed it down to onions–raw or undercooked. I had lots of IBS symptoms before SCD that have disappeared since beginning. I had no idea I couldn’t eat onions.
The gas isn’t because they are helping digestion, it’s because the bacteria that processes our food for us are being overfed and the gas is what *they* expel.
I posted a similar story this week, too, http://4hbmom.blogspot.com/2011/02/different-kind-of-cheating.html
Not being able to have a little bit of fruit has really been depressing for me and led to binging on bad stuff. My other problem is with cheat day foods hanging around. If I could have a bit of fruit every day or two, I wouldn’t care about indulging so much.
While I’m sure folks could like on the 4HB’s slow carb plan indefinitely, the whole Paleo thing is far more sustainable.
I agree with you about being able to have just a bit of fruit. I feel like I’d enjoy my day a lot more if I could just have a pure fruit smoothie (no added milk or sugars, etc.).
Fruits are plants, too. They’re healthy. They contain a ton of phytochemicals we don’t even know about. So I disagree with Tim on fruit, but I’m trying without it for a while to see what results I get.
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[...] Let me tell one such story – at lunch a co-worker was complaining about following weight watchers and being sick of salads and points and not really getting anywhere. I felt compelled to sit down and start discussing why I thought weight watchers wasn’t the answer, and why slow-carb/4HB is. This person went on to say that they wanted to buy the book, but didn’t think it was for them or it was just sensationalized or something like that. I also talked about eating “paleo” or “like a caveman” (which, as I recently wrote is what I think is the natural progression for followers of this diet). [...]
I’ve been on Slow Carb for 6+ weeks. I love 5 lbs the first few weeks and then plateaued. I’d been reading up on Paleo/Primal and am 3 days into a two week trial of it. Curious to see how it goes. I would suspect that neither is better, but one may be better suited to each individual. I’ve toyed with the idea of switching off between the two just to keep from getting bored and keeping my body confused.
Laura – I know some women have had issues losing weight consistently on SC/4HB – I believe due to hormonal issues with their menstrual cycle and such.
I think Paleo is a great option – really the only difference, or the major difference is the exclusion of beans/legumes. That in itself may help you – just be careful on Paleo with the inclusion of fruits. A few sources I’ve read recommend keeping fruit to a MAXIMUM of one serving per day if fat loss is the goal.
I’d love to help you out – maybe you could post your typical eating plan and some of the readers or myself may see something that you’re missing?
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress
BV
I’m happy to post my typical eating plan. I’m now 4 days into Paleo. I started Sunday after my cheat day. I haven’t added fruit in. I gained 1 lb from my cheat day and wanted to go fruit-free, very low carb until I lost that weight. It took until today (4 days) to lose the 1 lb I gained from cheat day.
It’s also during that window of time Tim says women should disregard the scale so I’m not worrying too much about it. I took new measurements as well, so I’ll be checking those again Saturday.
Stay tuned for a sample day…
Here’s a sample of my typical meals. I normally drink about 4 liters of water and tea every day… lots of green tea. Occasionally a glass or two of red wine or vodka, but that’s rare during the week. I mostly save it for cheat day.
Food-wise, I really don’t cheat, except the occasional minimal amount of cheese described below. No fruit yet for Paelo. I plan to start adding a small apple or berries in with breakfast soon. As much as possible I try to cook organic grass fed beef and free range chicken and random game meats, but I don’t sweat it too much.
Breakfast –
Option A : 2 organic free-range eggs cooked with a tiny bit of macadamia nut oil + 1 cup raw baby spinach or cooked leftover veggies from the night before. Veggies are likely sautéed in macadamia nut oil and some spices. I probably need more protein here. I can’t stomach any more eggs than this… so maybe I’ll add some chicken?
Option B: Protein Shake (134 cal, 30 g protein, 1.6g carb, 1.6g sugar) + 1 serve roasted almonds (169 cal, 6.3 g protein, 5.5 carb, 1.4 g sugar)
Lunch
Option A: Homemade chilli (have swapped out beans for extra veggies zuchinni)
Options B: Chicken or Fish + Plain Steamed Broccoli or Salad Greens and some other raw veggies+ Macadamia Nut Oil/Spices
Options C: Chicken or Lamb curry. (Emergency Food only! 1-2x per week tops, and I’m careful to ask if there’s added sugar or flour. I usually pick a savory Indian type curry to minimize the chance of sugars. This is if I’m out and about and didn’t bring lunch.)
Dinner
Option A: Chicken, Lamb or Beef + Veggies (normally a side of green veggies and a side of something else like pumpkin, squash, red bell peppers.) Veggies are normally cooked with a small bit of macadamia nut oil, garlic, onions, spices.
Option B: Some time of homemade curry or chilli. I like doing one pot meals during the week. If I cook my own curry, it’s usually loaded with vegetables and chicken. I cook from scratch so I know what’s going into the paste. Occasionally I might add coconut milk for a Thai style curry.
Snacks – rare!
1 serve of almonds (only if I didn’t have them with breakfast)
Cottage cheese with cinnamon. A bit weird, yes, I know.
1 serve of Cheese ( I know this isn’t Paleo/Primal, but if I found myself limited to 7-11 type food today with hours to go before I could get home for a meal. I figured it would satiate me and shouldn’t spike my blood sugar. )
You might want to look at a book called Carb Nite, which preceded the Four Hour Body by 3 years and follows roughly the same template — except it’s very nearly paleo. No beans, legumes, etc.
If you read this book you will know exactly which hormones are being “reset” and why it’s important to do ONE carb-overload per week — NOT a handful of cheat meals spread out.
Brian,
For the whole “Why does 4HB Slow Carb diet include Beans” Question, you should listen to Robb Wolf’s Podcast when Tim Ferriss is guest speaker. Robb and Tim discuss it and it basically comes down to the fact that Tim “couldn’t go 100% paleo” and had to have at least Lentils in his meals. So it came down to preference, and this explains why Tim never goes into the details of “Why” in his book.
Your 1-5 plan above is perfect, not many touch on it, but intermittent fasting has been the biggest results maker in my diet. Not only does IF help me reduce calories, when I do eat, I feel so much more full.
Thanks for your input, you provide some great value in this post.
-GuyJeb
Thanks for the feedback – I follow Robb Wolf – but rarely listen to his podcasts. I need to start!
Yeah, seconded on that recommendation. LOL @ Ferriss in that interview.
Not sure if you heard of the Apples diet by Jon Dana Benson, but I noticed it’s very very similar to SCD/Paleo with the following differences –
- Caloric restriction (= hunger)
- Apples. Lots of Apples.
Everything else is similar. Little to no carbs (except on feed or ‘cheat’ meals), limited nuts and protein.
Remember trying this for a month and feeling really really hungry most of time time.
I’m just curious, because his system is based on apple’s ability to burn fat (explained in length in the book). I wonder if anybody tried combining the 2 to see what happens, especially for the vegetarians and fruit lovers.
Might give it a try.
I’m 64 yrs old and have been eating slow carb for 5wks. I have seen some body transformation with lean body mass replacing fat per my Tanita scale, but no change in weight. Art DeVany says that everybody who stays at his house loses weight on the palo plan he follows (some fruit NO legumes). I find that legumes makes the whole 4HB diet palatable and easy. Maybe some people just can’t lose weight with the legume intake required by slow carb. What do you think? The gain in lean body mass I have seen makes me think that I was protein starved. I am also swinging kettle bells 3X /wk.
Since November, I’ve progressed from a No Sugar diet, to Paleo, and now I’m giving 4HB a go.
I go to the gym 5 days a week and I felt that I wasn’t getting the nutrient support from paleo, and I believe that having oats or beans may be beneficial to increase fat loss and muscle development.
Today is my first day with beans – I’m going to introduce them slowly so I only had about 100g at breakfast – but I am very curious to see how my body will react to the additional carbs and fibre.
I’m really glad I found this post. I love Paleo but I also think it’s important to cater your diet to your nutritional requirements.
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Since November, I’ve progressed from a No Sugar diet, to Paleo, and now I’m giving 4HB a go.
I go to the gym 5 days a week and I felt that I wasn’t getting the nutrient support from paleo, and I believe that having oats or beans may be beneficial to increase fat loss and muscle development.
Today is my first day with beans – I’m going to introduce them slowly so I only had about 100g at breakfast – but I am very curious to see how my body will react to the additional carbs and fibre.
I’m really glad I found this post. I love Paleo but I also think it’s important to cater your diet to your nutritional requirements.
Hey Brian,
I just found this post of yours… I hear you completely. The 4HB diet naturally progresses to a more paleo style diet.
I was thinking about this and I think it is BECAUSE of the cheat day. With the cheat day and actually the LACK OF FRUIT the 4HB diet really starts to feel like just that.. a diet. Where as Paleo is more of a LIFESTYLE.
Great post and comparison! I have been listening to the Paleo summit and it is great food for thought
Take Care…
Stephen
[...] eggs are always a crowd pleaser at parties (especially if your crowd is Paleo and SlowCarb folks), but sometimes you want to whip up something a bit more interesting for your taste buds. Enter the [...]
Check out the Paleo diet regime that I’ve been utilizing for the past 4 months. Their web page is: http://www.paleodietregimen.com I’m a forty-two year old male and began at 290 lbs and after thirty days I had lost about fifty lbs, and I now weigh about 175 and holding. This diet truly does work due to the fact it mimics the all-natural diet our ancestors ate which lived condition free. It is also often known as the caveman diet program.
I have been on the 4HB since March and have transformed from slightly over-weight to physically fit (seeing veins in my arms). The past three months have progressed to a more Paleo style with less beans (out of boredom with them). The two triggers I have noticed significantly are (1) getting 30 grams of protein down w/in 30 minutes of getting up is huge for lean muscle growth and weigh-loss, and (2) fruit really sets me back on the Paleo.
My “diet” has become so innate and easy now, that I don’t even notice it. Here are my tips: (1) Monday – Friday: 4HB diet with limited beans (1/4 can per day maybe), (2) weekend’s off: not “binge” but not “diet” either, (3) to take advantage of my high-calorie weekends I do the Geek-to-Freak workout on Fridays and again on Monday and the muscle gains have been astronomical.
Everyone has a sweat spot, I hope you find yours.
– Mark
Mark – thanks for the comment and I totally agree with the triggers you mention. I’ve only recently gone back to the “30grams in 30 minutes” and feel much better throughout the day, and fruit is my weakness – when I added fruit back in my weight loss came to a halt!